Comments on: University Students Protest Norman Finkelstein http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/ A New Platform for the Jewish Voice Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:11:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Gadi Ian http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-530 Gadi Ian Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:15:03 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-530 Hillel Hosts Some Programs and Speakers that Harm Pro-Israel Agenda -- http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/oped_view.asp?opedID=349 Hillel Hosts Some Programs and Speakers that Harm Pro-Israel Agenda — http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/oped_view.asp?opedID=349

]]> By: Seth Jacobson http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-407 Seth Jacobson Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:49 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-407 " There is a time to speak up and there are things that deserve our attention, and your time of day. It may be hard to judge what deserves what kind of action. But I believe that when the time comes, you’ll know (Jews work like that)." Very apropos of Purim. Sounds like Mordechai's argument that convinced Esther to take advantage of her position and relationship with Ahashuerosh to intervene and save the Jews from Haman's plot. ” There is a time to speak up and there are things that deserve our attention, and your time of day. It may be hard to judge what deserves what kind of action. But I believe that when the time comes, you’ll know (Jews work like that).”

Very apropos of Purim. Sounds like Mordechai’s argument that convinced Esther to take advantage of her position and relationship with Ahashuerosh to intervene and save the Jews from Haman’s plot.

]]> By: DFields http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-399 DFields Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:27:01 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-399 Yes, I do agree with you that silence is certainly another way to combat hate speech- and often times an effective one. For example, earlier this year Columbia, MO had a visit from a Neo-Nazi group (we just can't catch a break!) who marched in our downtown area. Again, Hillel chose to ignore this matter and encourage everyone to do something else (anything else) rather than attend this march. I absolutely agreed with their take-no-action stance and I did, in fact, stay at home and watched Jerry Springer (my favorite Jew) instead. You're absolutely right that those brain-washed air heads didn't deserve my time of day and I should save my breath for more important things (like chanting, "Jer-ry! Jer-ry!" at the T.V. screen). Besides, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of other students and town citizens who went to the march and, loudly or softly, protested hate in our name. "Not In Our Town" was Columbia's theme. I know that the Neo-Nazi's intent was precisely to make a spectacle and create controversy and, hopefully, to get people to argue or riot or get mad in hopes of creating the very same thing they were protesting: violence. BUT Norman Finkelstein's intent was a lot more offensive and much less transparent. With the disguise of being a Jew working for him, his goal is to infect his audience with the same anti-Israeli beliefs that he so calmly and rationally explains. His goal is not to make a spectacle or a scene, but instead inform an unknowing audience under the facade of prestige and accomplishment. About 120 people attended his speech and I doubt if 10 of them could point out Israel on a map. Most of them were much older than students and most of them have probably never met a Jew before. They came unsuspecting, with an open mind and willing to learn. Yes, we did go there to protest more of the university's foolish invitation to Finkelstein than anything else. But we also wanted to provide an alternative point of view, and this is where the anger lies so deep with Hillel. That audience was willing to learn whatever muck anyone wanted to throw at them. Most of them sat nodding their heads in agreement, as Finkelstein made such seemingly logical cases. Chai' Times magazine's mission was actually a 'silent protest', in which we stood outside the door and handed out our information and nothing more. We were well aware that Finkelstein could and would shoot us down in a debate in a matter of minutes. After all, this is how he makes his living. But we also felt that this was the high road to take- we didn't want to obstruct his right to speak, we simply wanted to offer an alternative voice. To let those people walk out of that room thinking that's all there is to it would have been heart breaking. This is where I wanted Hillel to step in. To stand up for the Jewish voice and let people know that there is more to the story and that Finkelstein's views are not the truth about the Jewish people. Our pamphlets were filled with straight-forward facts on subjects we knew he would address. Finkelstein has a history of using unsupported facts, false facts and taking facts out of content to use to his advantage. To someone who didn't know any better, you would say he's a very nice guy who knows his sh*t (sorry, mom). But we knew better and we wanted them to know it, too. In the end, many people were thankful for the alternative position. They thought it was interesting to compare our literature with Finkelstein's words. Again, I am not against his right to speak, but I think the audience needs to know the full picture (or at least as much of it as I can paint) in order to make up their own thoughts on the matter. And that's what we were there for- to present our side because if we didn't, than no one else would. A man asked us to ask Finkelstein questions and bring us issues during the Q&A time, but we refused because that would defeat the point of our silent protest. In the end, there is a time to be silent and there are things to ignore. But we mustn't let that be the "official" position for all things to come. There is a time to speak up and there are things that deserve our attention, and your time of day. It may be hard to judge what deserves what kind of action. But I believe that when the time comes, you'll know (Jews work like that). Yes, I do agree with you that silence is certainly another way to combat hate speech- and often times an effective one. For example, earlier this year Columbia, MO had a visit from a Neo-Nazi group (we just can’t catch a break!) who marched in our downtown area. Again, Hillel chose to ignore this matter and encourage everyone to do something else (anything else) rather than attend this march. I absolutely agreed with their take-no-action stance and I did, in fact, stay at home and watched Jerry Springer (my favorite Jew) instead.
You’re absolutely right that those brain-washed air heads didn’t deserve my time of day and I should save my breath for more important things (like chanting, “Jer-ry! Jer-ry!” at the T.V. screen). Besides, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of other students and town citizens who went to the march and, loudly or softly, protested hate in our name. “Not In Our Town” was Columbia’s theme.
I know that the Neo-Nazi’s intent was precisely to make a spectacle and create controversy and, hopefully, to get people to argue or riot or get mad in hopes of creating the very same thing they were protesting: violence. BUT Norman Finkelstein’s intent was a lot more offensive and much less transparent. With the disguise of being a Jew working for him, his goal is to infect his audience with the same anti-Israeli beliefs that he so calmly and rationally explains. His goal is not to make a spectacle or a scene, but instead inform an unknowing audience under the facade of prestige and accomplishment.
About 120 people attended his speech and I doubt if 10 of them could point out Israel on a map. Most of them were much older than students and most of them have probably never met a Jew before. They came unsuspecting, with an open mind and willing to learn.
Yes, we did go there to protest more of the university’s foolish invitation to Finkelstein than anything else. But we also wanted to provide an alternative point of view, and this is where the anger lies so deep with Hillel. That audience was willing to learn whatever muck anyone wanted to throw at them. Most of them sat nodding their heads in agreement, as Finkelstein made such seemingly logical cases.
Chai’ Times magazine’s mission was actually a ’silent protest’, in which we stood outside the door and handed out our information and nothing more. We were well aware that Finkelstein could and would shoot us down in a debate in a matter of minutes. After all, this is how he makes his living. But we also felt that this was the high road to take- we didn’t want to obstruct his right to speak, we simply wanted to offer an alternative voice. To let those people walk out of that room thinking that’s all there is to it would have been heart breaking.
This is where I wanted Hillel to step in. To stand up for the Jewish voice and let people know that there is more to the story and that Finkelstein’s views are not the truth about the Jewish people. Our pamphlets were filled with straight-forward facts on subjects we knew he would address. Finkelstein has a history of using unsupported facts, false facts and taking facts out of content to use to his advantage. To someone who didn’t know any better, you would say he’s a very nice guy who knows his sh*t (sorry, mom). But we knew better and we wanted them to know it, too.
In the end, many people were thankful for the alternative position. They thought it was interesting to compare our literature with Finkelstein’s words. Again, I am not against his right to speak, but I think the audience needs to know the full picture (or at least as much of it as I can paint) in order to make up their own thoughts on the matter. And that’s what we were there for- to present our side because if we didn’t, than no one else would. A man asked us to ask Finkelstein questions and bring us issues during the Q&A time, but we refused because that would defeat the point of our silent protest.
In the end, there is a time to be silent and there are things to ignore. But we mustn’t let that be the “official” position for all things to come. There is a time to speak up and there are things that deserve our attention, and your time of day. It may be hard to judge what deserves what kind of action. But I believe that when the time comes, you’ll know (Jews work like that).

]]> By: edenwatcher http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-398 edenwatcher Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:44:31 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-398 I not only understand but agree that what the 11 students did was an effective form of combating hate. I am by no means suggesting that one way of combating hate is better or worse than another, and I am by no means an expert on the subject. What I would like to offer, is my opinion which is that regardless of how many books finkelstein has written and how many speaking engagements he has had, he is still a pathetic insignificant. His words only have meaning if there are those listening to what he has to say. If there was an ant screaming or yelling hateful words at me, I would probably not hear it. And if I did hear it, I would not I feel as though I need to respond by squashing the ant with my shoe. I regard finkelstein and others like him as a peon - regardless of what others may think of him. He is - a waste of emotion. I respect that my 'way' is not the only way, is not a 'better or worse' way, but merely a 'different' way of combating hate. I strongly believe that we all need to follow our hearts and do what we think is right. And truth be told, if I was there, I probably would have joined in and made the 12th person at the protest to support the cause. am merely saying that the Hillel's lack of response does not necessarily suggest that they do not care. On the contrary - I would guess that they care very much, and that perhaps political issues the likes of which we are unaware of (with the university) may have played a hand in their response. But regardless - the strategy of ignoring hate can be an effective tool as well. I not only understand but agree that what the 11 students did was an effective form of combating hate. I am by no means suggesting that one way of combating hate is better or worse than another, and I am by no means an expert on the subject.

What I would like to offer, is my opinion which is that regardless of how many books finkelstein has written and how many speaking engagements he has had, he is still a pathetic insignificant. His words only have meaning if there are those listening to what he has to say.

If there was an ant screaming or yelling hateful words at me, I would probably not hear it. And if I did hear it, I would not I feel as though I need to respond by squashing the ant with my shoe. I regard finkelstein and others like him as a peon - regardless of what others may think of him. He is - a waste of emotion.

I respect that my ‘way’ is not the only way, is not a ‘better or worse’ way, but merely a ‘different’ way of combating hate.

I strongly believe that we all need to follow our hearts and do what we think is right. And truth be told, if I was there, I probably would have joined in and made the 12th person at the protest to support the cause.

am merely saying that the Hillel’s lack of response does not necessarily suggest that they do not care. On the contrary - I would guess that they care very much, and that perhaps political issues the likes of which we are unaware of (with the university) may have played a hand in their response.

But regardless - the strategy of ignoring hate can be an effective tool as well.

]]> By: Zechariah Mehler http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-397 Zechariah Mehler Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:06:48 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-397 Eden, What I think you don't understand about the situation is that Finkelstein is not just Shmoe, or Moron he is a well renowned author and in many cases a celebrated guest. In this case the UM students were protesting that their university had had the insensitivity to invite and honor him. Had Dayna and the students who protested remained silent on the issue UM would have no reason to believe that Finkelstein's hate mongering is offensive to students in the university. Eden,

What I think you don’t understand about the situation is that Finkelstein is not just Shmoe, or Moron he is a well renowned author and in many cases a celebrated guest. In this case the UM students were protesting that their university had had the insensitivity to invite and honor him. Had Dayna and the students who protested remained silent on the issue UM would have no reason to believe that Finkelstein’s hate mongering is offensive to students in the university.

]]> By: edenwatcher http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-396 edenwatcher Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:41:27 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-396 I commend your actions in doing what you think is right Additionally, we have to accept that there is more than one strategy to combat this type of hate. Consider the following. Clearly this finkelstein fellow is a bumbling idiot, that we all accept. However, by mounting an oppositional force you also lend legitimacy to his stance. He becomes a force to be reckoned with. People like finkelstein use these kinds of protests to fuel their own fires, and you become another statistic in his next book. By ignoring him, his statements and his speeches, it does not mean that we think he is right, but rather that we do not take him seriously. Who is this 'finkelstein' anyway? Just some moron. Why should we waste our time and energy on some regular joe shmoe idiot off the street? finkelstein, and others like him are pathetic and there is nothing we can do to change their views. Why does this guy deserve our attention or our time and energy? Even this very article is PR that finkelstein will be able to use for his benefit. He will twist your intent and use your article to show how even non-self hating Jews can't get along, using your words against Hillel as fuel. There will always be 'people' like finkelstein. There will always be haters. In conclusion, I believe that everyone should do what they think is right. You have opinions, and you voiced them. I applaud that. I wholeheartedly respect your opinions, and I even agree with them. My only point here, is to recognize that ignoring imbeciles like finkelstein is not akin to laying down with our butts in the air, but rather an alternative strategy to combat hate. I commend your actions in doing what you think is right

Additionally, we have to accept that there is more than one strategy to combat this type of hate.

Consider the following. Clearly this finkelstein fellow is a bumbling idiot, that we all accept. However, by mounting an oppositional force you also lend legitimacy to his stance. He becomes a force to be reckoned with. People like finkelstein use these kinds of protests to fuel their own fires, and you become another statistic in his next book. By ignoring him, his statements and his speeches, it does not mean that we think he is right, but rather that we do not take him seriously.

Who is this ‘finkelstein’ anyway? Just some moron. Why should we waste our time and energy on some regular joe shmoe idiot off the street? finkelstein, and others like him are pathetic and there is nothing we can do to change their views.

Why does this guy deserve our attention or our time and energy? Even this very article is PR that finkelstein will be able to use for his benefit. He will twist your intent and use your article to show how even non-self hating Jews can’t get along, using your words against Hillel as fuel.

There will always be ‘people’ like finkelstein. There will always be haters.

In conclusion, I believe that everyone should do what they think is right. You have opinions, and you voiced them. I applaud that. I wholeheartedly respect your opinions, and I even agree with them. My only point here, is to recognize that ignoring imbeciles like finkelstein is not akin to laying down with our butts in the air, but rather an alternative strategy to combat hate.

]]> By: Gadi Ian http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/comment-page-1/#comment-393 Gadi Ian Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:06:16 +0000 http://jewneric.com/university-of-missouri-students-protest-norman-finkelstein/2008/03/14/#comment-393 Once again, Hillel proves itself to be a useless, self-defeating organization. Kudos on taking the initiative and starting your own protest! Once again, Hillel proves itself to be a useless, self-defeating organization. Kudos on taking the initiative and starting your own protest!

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